Solution to Cln War Rant - House League Proposal

Napísal RaulPB, 20.04.2017 at 14:03

Fuck, should have known better myself... I feel dumb now. I blame scenarios for this! Fuck them right?

*TRIGGERED*

Napísal clovis1122, 20.04.2017 at 05:34

Theses who call themselves "competitive" while playing only one map were deemed to be dead by God itself. The current competitive scene as it is must die. The game can't afford to keep this going for long. At the end once they all have their rant and leave, we'll see the rise of a new and glorious atWar, with a lot of diversity. We'll lose many years of knowledge, but we'll finally be able to move on...

Things to Clarify:

1. The House League Proposal and diversity are NOT mutually exclusive. More players can participate in a CW under the House system. This means scenario CW or world CW can then be an option (as few clans have more than 3 players online at a time now)

2. Competence in EU map and scenario games are NOT mutually exclusive. Those who are competent in 3v3 are at times proven far better than pure scenario players in scenario games. EU 3v3 contains all the necessary skills one has to learn to become skilled in whatever map in AW

3. Competivity is a means (acquiring essential skills) to an end (competent and diverse gameplay). Who would want to play in a dumb game in which skills are not required? A competitive scene is what it takes to retain players (and create revenue)

I dont know why you have this sort of terrible idea. But the obvious fallacy of your proposition is that competent gameplay developed through EU 3v3 is never mutually exclusive to what you are proposing (i.e. a diverse atwar). Most EU 3v3 players actually play and shine in scenarios. It is just that scenarios take more time and less skills that competitive players stick with 3v3 and CW. A diverse but skilless atwar is detrimental to the longetivity of any game.

Napísal Dragon, 20.04.2017 at 17:30

Things to Clarify:

Nope, you've basically took what I had already said to turn them into fallacious statements.

As for your 'nice-looking' theories, I'm just gonna respond with the same reply that I grave to what is perhaps the biggest flaw in theses system, which you seemed to ignore for no particular reason.

Napísal clovis1122, 20.04.2017 at 05:34

Napísal Dragon, 19.04.2017 at 21:03

if cln leaders of that house approve

That looks great on paper.

TL;DR the biggest feats that the game achieved were made by players that came from different sources. I've got the elos and tournament victories despite being scenario player before 3vs3/duels. Cosa Nostra made several coalition records which remains intact even now, despite Fer/Zone and other Cosa core players being originally Ancient Players. Hell, even the strongest Europe player at the moment (opi) isn't native from it (he came directly from RP, oh the irony). But I'm not gonna argue about that. Once you want to stop living in a glass house and explore facts, perhaps you can start by looking out at theses.

My idea (to allow scenario CWs) is a lot less risky and have a net positive outcome by diversifying the available selections. You seemed to assume that it was already possible here:

Napísal Dragon, 20.04.2017 at 17:30

This means scenario CW or world CW can then be an option (as few clans have more than 3 players online at a time now)

Scenarios CWs are not an option.

There's some risk involved in the proposal (like in the others really) but taking into consideration that the scenario world has been flourishing with new faces (despite playing 2014 maps, cough...) we could definitively use them here. That will also get them closer and perhaps they could try Eu cws as well.

Napísal Permamuted, 20.04.2017 at 15:30

Don't worry dear you'll have your wish and sooner than you think(end of the summer season at the latest)

So you're guarantying that the current competitive scene will be dead by 21th of August at most?

Great.... can't wait to see it happening.

Napísal clovis1122, 20.04.2017 at 23:21

So you're guarantying that the current competitive scene will be dead by 21th of August at most?

Great.... can't wait to see it happening.

There'll be some hangers on but for the most part yes. Only ivan/amok can stop this.

Napísal clovis1122, 20.04.2017 at 23:21

Cosa Nostra made several coalition records which remains intact even now, despite Fer/Zone and other Cosa core players being originally Ancient Players. Hell, even the strongest Europe player at the moment (opi) isn't native from it (he came directly from RP, oh the irony)

Fallacy:
1. The so called competitive bloc does not repel Ancient map. Illyria, for example, played few Ancient CW.

2. Finding the fun of RP before being competitive is different from that of finding the fun of RP after being competitive. Opi, for example, no longer plays RP now.

Your example is as bad as this: Laochra played in the beginner room before excelling in CW. So beginner room must be better!! Get rid of CW and give us back beginner games!!!

I am not a fundamentalist. I don't vision a AW full of EU 3v3 CWs. I support any balanced scenario played in an intelligible manner. But the fact fewer new players have the essential skills to play any map well is sicking. As Cln is a medium to teach, but there is not enough training clns now, I think the house system can go a long way towards providing low ranks the chances to play in a competitive level.

One would expect the most notable forum scenariofag to be fervently in favour of scenario CWs but when I think about it it'll most likely be WW1 being played again and again and again even more than right now since elo will be involved. So rather not.

Napísal clovis1122, 20.04.2017 at 23:21

TL;DR the biggest feats that the game achieved were made by players that came from different sources. I've got the elos and tournament victories despite being scenario player before 3vs3/duels. Cosa Nostra made several coalition records which remains intact even now, despite Fer/Zone and other Cosa core players being originally Ancient Players. Hell, even the strongest Europe player at the moment (opi) isn't native from it (he came directly from RP, oh the irony). But I'm not gonna argue about that. Once you want to stop living in a glass house and explore facts, perhaps you can start by looking out at theses.

My idea (to allow scenario CWs) is a lot less risky and have a net positive outcome by diversifying the available selections. You seemed to assume that it was already possible here:

i actually didnt read your full post, just the part where you responded to me but i saw invisibles and lold. And people(hi tirpitz) have the cheek to criticise me for not collaborating more with clovis on strat changes. This is the kind of shit ive had to deal with the past few years and he hasnt changed at all. A man intelligent enough to become a top tier player and develope a functional atwar calculator making posts like this. The kindest explanation is that your trolling...

What is it acqui said... " i love clovis but he says silly things sometimes."

Also inspite of the logic you applied here i love how you didnt include me. I didnt touch europe+ until late r8. Its why to some it was like i appeared from nowhere on the competitive scene. I remember mou asking if i was an alt.

Napísal Zephyrusu, 21.04.2017 at 16:48

One would expect the most notable forum scenariofag to be fervently in favour of scenario CWs but when I think about it it'll most likely be WW1 being played again and again and again even more than right now since elo will be involved. So rather not.

The problem with ww1 is is that it can be quite long... theres not many scenarios out there that can on average expect to finish by around 10 turns.

Napísal Permamuted, 21.04.2017 at 17:01

The problem with ww1 is is that it can be quite long... theres not many scenarios out there that can on average expect to finish by around 10 turns.

WW1 almost always drags on, but most other scenarios can actually vary on when they end. It can take from 15 turns to as far as a full 50-turn game.

Napísal clovis1122, 20.04.2017 at 23:21

Napísal Zone, 20.05.2015 at 10:03

Napísal Nations, 20.05.2015 at 09:33

Eu 10k extra doesnt require any real skill,its just memorization and luck.

That's a sentence of someone that doesn't what he's saying...

Eu 10k is the ground that requires the most skills.
I understand what Zexil say about every players memorizing stuff but Europe+ will always be the ground that requires best skill and also is one of the most interesting map of this game : In term of balance, in term of range skills, different possibilities, money management, nearly all strat works on it.

gg trollvis. Good to have you back.

Napísal Permamuted, 20.04.2017 at 15:30

And it's dying not drying. Drying is what you hope will happen to your wet clothes when you put them out in the sun.

When you have to mock about someone's english, you know you lost the conversation!!!

xxaxaxaxa

Both of you are bored as fuck.

AW obviously doesnt wants to be saved, so how about stop acting like 2 baboons and already kiss and make up, because these flamewars gaywars are boring af.

Napísal Waffel, 21.04.2017 at 18:28

Both of you are bored as fuck.

AW obviously doesnt wants to be saved, so how about stop acting like 2 baboons and already kiss and make up, because these flamewars gaywars are boring af.

They hide their love with flamewars gaywars

Napísal Waffel, 21.04.2017 at 18:26

Napísal Permamuted, 20.04.2017 at 15:30

And it's dying not drying. Drying is what you hope will happen to your wet clothes when you put them out in the sun.

When you have to mock about someone's english, you know you lost the conversation!!!

xxaxaxaxa

Butthurt because you also cant english and get corrected all the time?xaaxaxaxaxaxa!

/support

Napísal Dragon, 21.04.2017 at 16:41

Fallacy:

You've took my words out of context again.

I've never said that both blocks were exclusive each others. In fact, it is also true that the majority of the players that achieved the biggest peaks weren't based on a single field. We certainly competed across different areas of the game, something which I define as being a true competitive player. Up to today no "pure" one-side player had reached the feats.

You've however proclaimed Eu+ supremacy:

Napísal Dragon, 20.04.2017 at 17:30

Those who are competent in 3v3 are at times proven far better than pure scenario players in scenario games. EU 3v3 contains all the necessary skills one has to learn to become skilled in whatever map in AW.

To which I grave you examples proving otherwise. We all came from a different territory and successes at the map, even beating people who had played the map for years. To put the things into perspective my guides were published on August 2014 when Fer/Zone were still newbies to Eu+; Cosa became the top clan during the autumn and the summer season of 2015. It only took them 6 months to beat the people that had their daily dose of Eu+, a map which you proclaim to be supreme.

There's not a single example of this in the scenario field. Usually the best players are those that have been playing the map for years.

Nonetheless it's absurd to think that one would learn about, for example, to recognize or to efficiently manage your different types of units in a map which always have the same units. Theses are certainly important skills which you can't acquire anywhere in the default map. At the end of the day whatever you can do in the default map can be extend to be done better in a custom map; and whatever you can do in a custom map can be extend to be done better in scenarios.

Is as simple as that.

Napísal Dragon, 21.04.2017 at 16:41

But the fact fewer new players have the essential skills to play any map well is sicking. As Cln is a medium to teach, but there is not enough training clns now, I think the house system can go a long way towards providing low ranks the chances to play in a competitive level.

The house system do have it's advantages. But you keep ignoring it's biggest flaw then and now:

Napísal clovis1122, 20.04.2017 at 05:34

Napísal Dragon, 19.04.2017 at 21:03

if cln leaders of that house approve

That looks great on paper.

Napísal Khal.eesi, 21.04.2017 at 22:41

Napísal Waffel, 21.04.2017 at 18:26

Napísal Permamuted, 20.04.2017 at 15:30

And it's dying not drying. Drying is what you hope will happen to your wet clothes when you put them out in the sun.

When you have to mock about someone's english, you know you lost the conversation!!!

xxaxaxaxa

Butthurt because you also cant english and get corrected all the time?xaaxaxaxaxaxa!

You talking about english? Lol.... I am laguing

Napísal Permamuted, 21.04.2017 at 16:59

Also inspite of the logic you applied here i love how you didnt include me. I didnt touch europe+ until late r8. Its why to some it was like i appeared from nowhere on the competitive scene. I remember mou asking if i was an alt.

Was only accounting the players who achieved the biggest feats in the game, but there are certainly a lot of examples of players like you who made a successful adapt to Eu+.

But you'll probably argue about how you simply were smarter than, say Eagles, and how this trait alone allowed you as a newcomer to compete with the players that had years playing Eu+....

Napísal Permamuted, 21.04.2017 at 17:31

Napísal Zone, 20.05.2015 at 10:03

Napísal Nations, 20.05.2015 at 09:33

Eu 10k extra doesnt require any real skill,its just memorization and luck.

That's a sentence of someone that doesn't what he's saying...

Eu 10k is the ground that requires the most skills.
I understand what Zexil say about every players memorizing stuff but Europe+ will always be the ground that requires best skill and also is one of the most interesting map of this game : In term of balance, in term of range skills, different possibilities, money management, nearly all strat works on it.

Zone is wrong indeed.

To opi you've just twisted the question.

Note that we aren't speaking here from which map they learned more or they consider to be the best. I'm also not encouraging X player to play RP because opi used to play it either (as Invisible wrongly assumed). Because the people are different, what might works for you might not work for me. Regardless of this, I'd still encourage players to tryout scenarios, ancient, Africa and other zones, then if they believe that they won't learn in theses zones, then they're free to move on.

Long post, but sum up is that you can't negate the fact that they came from a different zone and still managed to beat the players that had a longer time at Eu+. The map itself is nothing but a bunch of capitals and cities randomly placed to fit with their counterpart in real life (with economical GDP adjustment). It was never intended by the creators for Eu+ to be balanced or whatsoever.

P.S: it's also noteworthy that the map it's not the only thing that influences in how you learn, but rather a single factor. The process is more complex than that.

Napísal clovis1122, 22.04.2017 at 04:54

To which I grave you examples proving otherwise. We all came from a different territory and successes at the map, even beating people who had played the map for years. To put the things into perspective my guides were published on August 2014 when Fer/Zone were still newbies to Eu+; Cosa became the top clan during the autumn and the summer season of 2015. It only took them 6 months to beat the people that had their daily dose of Eu+, a map which you proclaim to be supreme.

There's not a single example of this in the scenario field. Usually the best players are those that have been playing the map for years.

Nonetheless it's absurd to think that one would learn about, for example, to recognize or to efficiently manage your different types of units in a map which always have the same units. Theses are certainly important skills which you can't acquire anywhere in the default map. At the end of the day whatever you can do in the default map can be extend to be done better in a custom map; and whatever you can do in a custom map can be extend to be done better in scenarios.

How is the 6 month cosa example relevant to your point? Zone and ferr themselves will happily admit eu gave them their skills not whatever they played before. Their 6 months of practice to dominate is pretty standard for any new clan. Mk didnt dominate immediately, nor did illy.

How is it absurd? The strategies were built around the default map and its units. These were heavily refined along with the map itself(specifically eu) and are played to the highest level found on atwar. Scenarios dumb down the game by in most cases removing the expansion vs neutrals element and rendering half the strategies or more as useless. Usually pd works as most maps have base inf and tanks, then youve all unit strategies like imp iron fist blitz and lb. All you need to adapt to a new map is a basic understanding of how attack defense and hp interact with each other. Where better to acquire that knowlege than to pick iron fist or gc on the default map and get a feel for how much stronger your units become. What is absurd is thinking scenario players learn more. Their maps are constantly changing, they never learn what it is to play a country or strategy to its highest level. They dont even have any drive to compete since theres no tournaments or duels etc.

This is why you've competitive players jumping onto scenarios and dominating and when scenario players try to play eu they fail miserably and look like total noobs. It takes us a few plays to dominate their maps and it takes them months to gain competence on ours. They have no concept of what an efficient expand looks like. If what you were saying was true wed have scenario players unheard of in the competitive community dominating various tournaments. Except that has never happened in atwars history.

Before someone gets butthurt, i am not merely about competitive elitism " we are the best ura". I just want good players to play against. Scenarios and custom maps have failed to generate such players. What youre saying is totally wrong and i also dont like how youre talking down to invis.

Napísal clovis1122, 22.04.2017 at 05:50

But you'll probably argue about how you simply were smarter than, say Eagles, and how this trait alone allowed you as a newcomer to compete with the players that had years playing Eu+....

No i wouldn't. I played high fund world games and various scenarios like battle for mid earth and zombie apocalypse. I also played the occasional UN or RP. I became bored when i hit r8 as i was beating almost everyone even higher ranks and i had gotten most the upgrades. I looked elsewhere for challenge. I looked at people like tops goblin and kratore constantly dueling in the lobby and asking for games and i decided i wanted to take them on. I joined world games with the competitive players and finally found myself outmatched again. Thus competitive lao was born.

Opi had a pretty similar story.

Napísal clovis1122, 22.04.2017 at 05:50

Zone is wrong indeed.

So zone, myself, desu, acquiesce, tophats, mauzer, invis and chess are wrong but clovis is right and a visionary? And you call me the arrogant one. We even had this convo 2 years ago and you still haven't been convinced to change your stance despite all logic.

Napísal clovis1122, 22.04.2017 at 05:50

To opi you've just twisted the question.

How? how would you have asked the question?

Napísal clovis1122, 22.04.2017 at 05:50

Note that we aren't speaking here from which map they learned more or they consider to be the best. I'm also not encouraging X player to play RP because opi used to play it either (as Invisible wrongly assumed). Because the people are different, what might works for you might not work for me. Regardless of this, I'd still encourage players to tryout scenarios, ancient, Africa and other zones, then if they believe that they won't learn in theses zones, then they're free to move on.

Long post, but sum up is that you can't negate the fact that they came from a different zone and still managed to beat the players that had a longer time at Eu+. The map itself is nothing but a bunch of capitals and cities randomly placed to fit with their counterpart in real life (with economical GDP adjustment). It was never intended by the creators for Eu+ to be balanced or whatsoever.

P.S: it's also noteworthy that the map it's not the only thing that influences in how you learn, but rather a single factor. The process is more complex than that.

Why would people not learn in those zones? It would be silly to believe otherwise. Anywhere that teaches different gameplay is good.

And yes i can negate that fact because its not a fact. Your premise is that non eu players are beating longterm eu players(like eagles) because they played other maps. This is not because they played other maps. Its because they practiced eu and they are good. Opi clearly disagrees with you, as do zone and they were your prime examples.

anyway im not bothering anymore with this, you have an anti eu contrarian agenda and you've always been like this. It's such a waste of time arguing with you. You wont realise you're wrong until atwar is a wasteland of noobs and by then therell be no1 left to point it out to you.

like desu and acqui said.

Napísal Desu, 16.09.2014 at 22:21

I think it's been long figured out that trying to have a discussion with Clovis is pretty pointless. He's almost universally wrong on every subject but he still manages to ignore your statement and continue arguing long after he's been proven wrong.

Napísal Acquiesce, 22.11.2015 at 10:56

Clovis I'm gonna stop replying to you here because honestly I've never had anything constructive come out of an argument with you.

Napísal Permamuted, 22.04.2017 at 06:20

-

You seems pretty mad.

I'd rather not enter into that discussion again. Ivan grave his inputs about Eu+. You didn't open up your eyes after losing to njab and alpha. It appears like you've learned nothing from the previous talks and just repeat yourself into an endless circle.

Don't expect an answer to me to what was already answered and proved. Just accept the truth and move on.

Did quickread something about challenges though, which is fair and is about what I'm writting what will be my last shot at my proposal in this topic.

Napísal clovis1122, 22.04.2017 at 06:53

Napísal Permamuted, 22.04.2017 at 06:20

-

You seems pretty mad.

I'd rather not enter into that discussion again. Ivan grave his inputs about Eu+. You didn't open up your eyes after losing to njab and alpha. It appears like you've learned nothing from the previous talks and just repeat yourself into an endless circle.

Don't expect an answer to me to what was already answered and proved. Just accept the truth and move on.

Did quickread something about challenges though, which is fair and is about what I'm writting what will be my last shot at my proposal in this topic.

Njab beats me in 1 game and you brag about it years after. Lord knows how much i stomped him. Oh gee a r11 beating a r12 this one time how impressive. You and your buddy njab lost destoria and america cws to me and acqui/ferr. Whats your point? And who the fuck is alpha? Youre trying to pretend you have logic in your arguments and youre trying now to make me mad by rubbing losses in my face because ive embarassed you in this discussion.

Face it clovis, you and your buddy njab are alone in this opinion and havent a shred of evidence to back it up. The truth hurts i know. Feel free to put me back on ignore. You can vaguely suggest there is eviidence elsewhere all you like but youre fooling nobody.

Find us some pro scenario players or stop wasting our time with big text walls.

Alright I'll make a last attempt on my proposal.

To be honest, one of the main reasons for which I moved on to Eu+ back then, was due to the challenges. Back then and even now, you still can't CW or Duel in scenarios. You can do it on Custom Maps, but nowadays barely any clan is interested on it. The Custom Maps community is itself pretty invisible compared to that of scenarios or default map players. I'm glad to have found clans like MK, SA and sometimes Illy that still does theses despite I'm myself not so active.

The paradox starts when you want to challenge yourself against the best players. Because they're all stacked in a single map, you have no choice but to also play that map. That is why all the biggest players that the game have, with no exception, played the Eu+ metagame at some point. The knowledge around Eu+ stacks repeating the circle for the future generation of atWarians.

If such thing existed in Ancient, for example, then players like GoogleChrome, Zone, Prometheus, Phoenix, Kraigg and many others wouldn't have to move. They would have a yet challenging experience on ancient, competition, something that ask them for their best. There would be a lot more duels and coalition wars on Ancient. Knowledge would stack on Ancient as well. The circle would attract more players to keep growing. Ideally it should overlay with other circles to create diversity.

The map itself does little to determine where the players will play. Its more about having a challenge, a calling objective. To put this into perspective, there are way more efficient keyboards implementations in the market yet we still use the QWERTY keyboards. I stand on my point that Eu+ is not the best nor even a balanced map. I do not think that the players plays it due to that trait either. I believe that we play the map due to the players, yes! The players! Our friends or enemies, the people that we want to have fun with or the people that we want to beat/compete with.

Many of Epic Clan members are scenario players. We do have our friends and enemies in other coalitions, that aren't competing because they can't.If scenario CWs are a reality, then we could challenge theses coalitions to get them attracted more into the coalition scene. After some games, there's a chance that theses coalitions also sees us playing Eu+ and feel interested on it. And that's how the circle starts. That's the best strategy to expose a group of players to a new kind of play.

If the idea works, then eventually the scenario clan will get attracted to Eu+. The paradox will repeat making it so that those scenario players who wants to learn and are now exposed to the Eu+ metagame will have no choice but to move to Eu+. That'll be more natural step for them. Then again, ideally this circle of players should overlay with the current Eu+ scene, creating diversity.

The idea is to overlay both sides, not to let one side completely absorb the other. In the custom map example the Eu+ circle absorbed the ancient players that left once Plaetorians and other Ancient clans were over. I believe that the scenario circle is stronger, and as such will be able to hold on for itself.

Creating a cicle like theses out of nowhere is quite hard. I myself tried to do so by regretting Eu+ duels and dueling outside of it. I made a long patch and found many players, sometimes we even got to have CW in theses zones but we were so few players and failed to attract the other people. Or at least that is for CWs.

We did however gained a lot of momentum when we reached #1, which we used to play Cws outside of EU+.

In duels I became the top #1 player for an entire year, so the players had no other but to also play the same maps as me. I used my elo to attract them to a new experience, and some of theses players even like and duel in theses maps today. I feel like I've achieved something when I see that.

But if nothing of this happen, then I'd bet for the current scene to just die. We'll lose a lot of knowledge and skill is true, but the players won't have any particular reason to play Eu+ then. That'll be my and other's call to attempt once again to establish different "circles" to attempt to overlay them to each others. If that works you'll have true competitive players in the long run because the competitive scene will no longer be based on a single map.

---

To sum up, I believe that it will be beneficial to allow Scenario CWs. Then a few group of scenario players overlayed into the Eu+ field like EC is could attract the other scenario players into CWs.

The risk is about if that scenario clan wants or not to keep CWing. The more that he CWs, the more that he gets attracted to it...

If my proposal doesn't gets implemented then there's another opportunity once the Eu+ circle gets weaker. Once you guys leaves I'll just abuse our knowledge to get #1 and then force other clans to play Africa, LA, etc.... if they want to win. That will slowly create theses new, overlaying circles.

That is if the game stays alive.

Napísal Permamuted, 22.04.2017 at 07:04

Face it clovis, you and your buddy njab are alone in this opinion and havent a shred of evidence to back it up.

I lol'd.

Show us your awards Laochra!

Or you'd rather duel me?

Napísal clovis1122, 22.04.2017 at 07:16

Napísal Permamuted, 22.04.2017 at 07:04

Face it clovis, you and your buddy njab are alone in this opinion and havent a shred of evidence to back it up.

I lol'd.

Show us your awards Laochra!

Or you'd rather duel me?

What have awards got to do with evidence of how scenarios are better? Are you referring to yours? the 1700 elo you acquired by running scared from eu players? Remember you failed to rank in the first season after attempting to farm elo by playing africa 100 times and mastering it down to the finest details. So after that season you became a latin america and africa expert and demanded everyone duel you there because eu players are memorisers all the while you had 100s of games on those maps. Surely you remember clovis, 50 duels on africa in 3 days and no trophy to show for it. Must've been a blow to the ego.

Or are you talking about your trophies? Did you actually beat me in any of those tourneys you got a trophy in? Cause i certainly did beat you for some of mine... Nice job dominating a dying atwar with mostly only opi and a learning prometheus to play against. Oh wait you beat me in a few duels last year didnt you on latin america and eurasia. I know how you like to brag about those. Gj beating someone who stopped playing seriously pre html.

Dont try and engage me in a pissing contest clovis, ill make you cry. Oh and yes ill duel you. East duel or scared? Who am i a lowly 40000 turns played player to beat someone with 100k.

Napísal clovis1122, 22.04.2017 at 07:12

If such thing existed in Ancient, for example, then players like GoogleChrome, Zone, Prometheus, Phoenix, Kraigg and many others wouldn't have to move. They would have a yet challenging experience on ancient, competition, something that ask them for their best. There would be a lot more duels and coalition wars on Ancient. Knowledge would stack on Ancient as well. The circle would attract more players to keep growing. Ideally it should overlay with other circles to create diversity.

poor example ancient is a fun map but its a spam map that favours the inf/tank based strats. It is nowhere near as diverse or interesting as eu+ and no amount cws or duels will change that. Again ask zone or ferr. Oh no wait there probably wrong too arent they.

As for the rest of your post tl;dr. It is probably more horrible logic like this.

TL;DR version of Laochra's logic:

Napísal Permamuted, 22.04.2017 at 07:31

I win -> I'm superior, you're just a loser go away. You got reck stop speaking trash.
I lose -> I wasn't playing serious, you were just lucky. You're just a memorizer that hacked into the game to know exactly how many tanks you needed to beat neutrals.

As for the duel, why don't we duel in Laochra's Eurasia map again? Same settings. It's 3:0 for me!

Death duel anyone? Oh you'll probably keep annoying around with an alt after you lose. What was his name again? Usul?

Napísal clovis1122, 22.04.2017 at 07:43

As for the duel, why don't we duel in Laochra's Eurasia map again? Same settings. It's 3:0 for me!

Death duel anyone? Oh you'll probably keep annoying around with an alt after you lose. What was his name again? Usul?

Ill death duel you. I am tired and bored of atwar. But it should be east eu. Afterall you too have a master of the east tourney trophy and far more plays and experience on that setting. Unless you are admitting you were not worthy...

best of 3 master of the east style, i wont play on an alt. I will logoff and leave for good with a ban placed on my account. I've 0 interest in sticking around and reading your bragging.

unless ofc you want to do the eurasia map on casual, you can use the strats i used(pd and mos). While i get to go gw. only with that condition though, lets see if you can beat me with a strat handicap.

Will Clovis answer the challenge?

Napísal Permamuted, 22.04.2017 at 08:05

Napísal clovis1122, 22.04.2017 at 07:43

As for the duel, why don't we duel in Laochra's Eurasia map again? Same settings. It's 3:0 for me!

Death duel anyone? Oh you'll probably keep annoying around with an alt after you lose. What was his name again? Usul?

Ill death duel you. I am tired and bored of atwar. But it should be east eu. Afterall you too have a master of the east tourney trophy and far more plays and experience on that setting. Unless you are admitting you were not worthy...

best of 3 master of the east style, i wont play on an alt. I will logoff and leave for good with a ban placed on my account. I've 0 interest in sticking around and reading your bragging.

Zone also thought that I didn't deserved the award... so instead of a best of 3 we had a best of 9. I'd still won #1.

As tasty as it sounds, I'm afraid I cannot participate on it. I've got to work and attend the university right after leaving me few time to prepare to the match (if any). I've also no total control over my schedule. In my current status I'm not among the top 3 or top 10 east players of the game.

Napísal Permamuted, 22.04.2017 at 08:05

unless ofc you want to do the eurasia map on casual, you can use the strats i used(pd and mos). While i get to go gw. only with that condition though, lets see if you can beat me with a strat handicap.

Why would you only agree to a handicap. Unlike East Europe, an Eu vs Asia duel demands the most of your skills.

Lets just have a death duel there with no BS. If you think that GW is op then go ahead and take it. I'm not gonna handicap myself. I'm gonna go with everything in that duel.

That is unless you are afraid about rusty clovis >>>> Active laochra.

Oh and before you say something yes, your east is stronger than my rusty east.

Napísal brianwl, 22.04.2017 at 08:12

Will Clovis answer the challenge?

Shouldn't you be deleting the dozen of off-topic comments in this thread