Any ideas for make a legit indicator of something?

IMO:


Right now there has been many exploits on the majority, if not all, system of classification in AtWar. Some knows examples:

SP system
Games won/loss system
Reputation system.
Clan Points system.
Elo system.



How to fix those systems? There has been many suggestions for a while. Some of them such as the SP multiplier greatly reduced the percent of SP farm, but the solution was pretty slow - many players already made up their way to high rank. While Clan Points had received more proposal and is likely to be fixed first than the rest of the system, it looks like the community just had give up with both the Rep and ELO system. Games won are probably the most useless of the farms, but the fact that you can obtain a good win/loss and leave ratio easily can still be cataloged as a farm, and I swear many players has been tricked using this for estimate someone's skills.

Problems on a community are pretty usual, but they are in the next formula:

%Self-Efficiently = Required time for fix a problem / Time since the exist of such problem.


If we know how to fix those systems, why aren't we doing it?

There are various factors, but two of them are the most important of all:

1) Inactivity of Admins: As Ivan had expressed on another post (Fruit's one), both admins are humans, like us. They eventually earned stuff and problems that have more priority than AtWar. Since they doesn't have enough time, the number of problems had suddenly rise up. Many players thinks and complains that the Admins had "left AtWar".

2) The problem with the Moderator Team/System: From all AtWar, the moderator team is the closest system to the admins, and also the second position in order of power. They regulate AtWar in many ways. But recently the number of players rejecting a moderator's action had rise. Once again, many players want a change.


Okay, what to do now or we should just sit and watch?

Yes, Sit and Watch. This works by far better than trying any solution. Stay out of any flaming post and you'll be fine.... yes, YOU. But not the community.

I've got the indirect. Are you telling me I should make a bunch of post so something changes?

No.

Then what?

IMO, most of those self-regulation task are already done by the moderator system. But there are some task that can't be done by them and requires admin's help. If admins just give more powers to mods for implement and fix certain systems/features (ELO, for examples) the time required for fix a problem would improve pretty fast. I am not saying we would stop having problems and AtWar would've the heavens, but, Once again, we would improve a lot. Bye Bye long problems without solution.

Sorry I disagree giving more power to mods. They already proven to be bad guys and giving more power would only cause more bias actions and AtWar would be in general worsen.

Here's the problem. The only group that can fix those problems have many adverse in the own community. This is why we should just sit and watch.

There must be another solution!

Discuss time!

imo we should create a group of players choosen by the admins for organize ideas and give solution for common AW problems...

Cituj:

Imo we should create a group of players choosen by the admins for organize ideas and give solution for common AW problems...

btw nice post! go supporters go!

*legit

Good post

"Cry"
~Waffel

Napísal Spart, 21.02.2015 at 12:22

"Cry"
~Waffel

I like it.... I like how you did not offend any party but kept it cool.... Support

Napísal Permamuted, 21.02.2015 at 12:37

Napísal Spart, 21.02.2015 at 12:22

"Cry"
~Waffel

Reform is all good and well - when the item in question works already, and you want to make it better.

But sometimes, you just have to overhaul the entire schizophrenic morass and make it again.

We have very many brains in the AtWar community, and some of them are exceedingly intelligent. Asking all that brainpower to sit on the sidelines and just watch things happen is wasteful and inefficient.

Napísal International, 21.02.2015 at 21:18

Reform is all good and well - when the item in question works already, and you want to make it better.

But sometimes, you just have to overhaul the entire schizophrenic morass and make it again.

We have very many brains in the AtWar community, and some of them are exceedingly intelligent. Asking all that brainpower to sit on the sidelines and just watch things happen is wasteful and inefficient.

Please explain how 12 threads of discussion and no conclusion is any beneficial for the community. It would had been better if such type of threads didn't exist from the start.

If they're bad, horrendous and unnecessary, imagine the admins reading all that just for disagree or agree or call for more discussion (or ignore).

---

---

For give many examples:

The problem with the Map Makers would had lasted one day if someone just had written up a small report for the Admins about the situation, and admins just submit their final decision about the matter (It could be more discussion too, but they would've informed).

The problem with coalition system would had lasted less than one week and with a considerable reduction of spam if such committee did exist, so players would need to talk with such committee, and such committee catalog all the ideas for fix certain matter together - so admins can watch different points and choose fast. You can see still nowadays how clans still complains about it.

The problem with the moderator team would had lasted less than 14 hours if the players involved would had just written up their own report and send it to such committee, so such committee send it to the admins, and badada answer!

---

---

Inaction is bad. Solutions should be enforced faster. All I am asking for is organization.

Cituj:

Napísal Azula., 21.02.2015 at 11:47

Imo we should create a group of players choosen by the admins for organize ideas and give solution for common AW problems...

btw nice post! go supporters go!

supporters really mean nothing in the idea that they hold the representation of the community.

Beautiful *slowly claps*

Napísal clovis1122, 21.02.2015 at 11:35

imo we should create a group of players choosen by the admins for organize ideas and give solution for common AW problems...

Sorry, but what would be the point of this? Why limit the number of people giving suggestions? As you said its the community that participates in 12 page discussions and never come to a conclusion. Why pick a select few from this very community and have them discuss in 2 pages and not reach a conclusion?

I for one think its better to leave it the way it is. The admins do read your suggestions (ex: Desu's CW suggestions). Its just that now that HTML5 is nearly complete they barely have any time for major overhauls of SP/ELO system.

In my opinion Elo system is fine, I have no problem with it. Cw problem has been already discussed so there is no reason to bring this up again. The only thing we need right now is a group of active mods which will organize the game and community

Cituj:

Napísal Quantum027, 21.02.2015 at 22:27

Napísal Azula., 21.02.2015 at 11:47

Imo we should create a group of players choosen by the admins for organize ideas and give solution for common AW problems...

btw nice post! go supporters go!

supporters really mean nothing in the idea that they hold the representation of the community.

yes thats one of the things we try to change

Napísal Meester, 22.02.2015 at 00:09

Napísal clovis1122, 21.02.2015 at 11:35

imo we should create a group of players choosen by the admins for organize ideas and give solution for common AW problems...

Sorry, but what would be the point of this? Why limit the number of people giving suggestions? As you said its the community that participates in 12 page discussions and never come to a conclusion. Why pick a select few from this very community and have them discuss in 2 pages and not reach a conclusion?

I for one think its better to leave it the way it is. The admins do read your suggestions (ex: Desu's CW suggestions). Its just that now that HTML5 is nearly complete they barely have any time for major overhauls of SP/ELO system.

That's just a suggestion. But I will try to defend my point:

I am not asking for few player to "discuss" whenever something is relevant or not, just to organize the information and define what have priority over another (of course, admins have the final choice ). In my argument, the difference between relevant and priority is that irrelevant information get discard, but "low priority" information is still there, and admins can still see it.

The biggest example that I can give you now is Pulse's Community Ideas Wishlist http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=8034 . If this was updated, Admins could just check here rather than whole ideas post.

Another example: Let's say there is a 48 pages thread of discussion between 20 players. Some support this, and some support that. It would've organized in this way:

Players's argument that support this:

-1- (Strongest argument with many upvotes or other kind of mechanic that popularizes it)
-2-
-3-
-4-
-5-
-6-
-....-
-17-

Player's argument that support that:

-1-(Strongest argument with many upvotes or other kind of mechanic that popularizes it)
-2-
-3-

Suggestions:

-1-(Suggestion with most upvotes or any other kind of mechanic that popularizes it)
-2-
-3-
-.....-

IMO Admins will always (hi RaulPB byeRaulPB) have the final choice, so ¿Why discuss with an ordinary user? If I emit my suggestion I could use some arguments yes, but if they're not convincing me, then I want it to be discard by admins and not by someone saying "Clovis you're wrong. End of the thread."

Napísal Eagle, 22.02.2015 at 04:44

In my opinion Elo system is fine, I have no problem with it. Cw problem has been already discussed so there is no reason to bring this up again. The only thing we need right now is a group of active mods which will organize the game and community

Hi god and bluecher, how are you guys? Love n peace !

Right now there isn't any legit indicator of something. Ranks means nothing, Reps means nothing, ELO means nothing, CP means nothing...

Napísal clovis1122, 22.02.2015 at 07:25

Hi god and bluecher, how are you guys? Love n peace !

You gave how much elo to God?

Napísal clovis1122, 22.02.2015 at 07:25

ELO means nothing

yea and youre part of the problem. congrats.

Napísal Permamuted, 22.02.2015 at 07:44

Napísal clovis1122, 22.02.2015 at 07:25

ELO means nothing

yea and youre part of the problem. congrats.

Napísal Goblin, 22.02.2015 at 07:32

Napísal clovis1122, 22.02.2015 at 07:25

Hi god and bluecher, how are you guys? Love n peace !

You gave how much elo to God?

I legit lost a bet. But stopping dueling when researching higher amounts should have some kind of drawback. Maybe an "overall" elo and a "seasonal" elo? Either way this is not the place for discuss about this matter.

Seriously Clovis ...this is the second time you tell me "this isnt the place to discuss this".

Dont make your pretencious fuckin topics then if you dont want to discuss things ...

Napísal clovis1122, 22.02.2015 at 07:25

Right now there isn't any legit indicator of something. Ranks means nothing, Reps means nothing, ELO means nothing, CP means nothing...

Comp. gg

Napísal clovis1122, 22.02.2015 at 07:56

I legit lost a bet. But stopping dueling when researching higher amounts should have some kind of drawback. Maybe an "overall" elo and a "seasonal" elo? Either way this is not the place for discuss about this matter.

oh but it is, this is your thread, you created the topic of discussion. You mentioned the irrelevance of elo and are asking what we can do about it. This is very much so the place to discuss how the likes of you and bluecher2 are the cause of the problem.

Nice useless word

Here is my idea for showing skillz of player but few only: its through clan. what clan can do is give this token or medal to players to that can show up on their name as reward for their skill. but the clans who can do it is the competitive one in cw. i think there should be 2 types one for the clan customized and can be given to players in the clan through vote of players, afk players more than 7 days cant vote. one through the CW system of clans who vote to give players the cw one , how many clans which i dont know you decide maybe the mods can to balance. its hard for the game to tell skill the only other way is through players but that can be abused so the only way is through competitive cw who can still troll but hopefully will respect it. this system cant rate skill for rp and senerios even thought some senerios do need skill.

Napísal Permamuted, 22.02.2015 at 08:31

Napísal clovis1122, 22.02.2015 at 07:56

I legit lost a bet. But stopping dueling when researching higher amounts should have some kind of drawback. Maybe an "overall" elo and a "seasonal" elo? Either way this is not the place for discuss about this matter.

oh but it is, this is your thread, you created the topic of discussion. You mentioned the irrelevance of elo and are asking what we can do about it. This is very much so the place to discuss how the likes of you and bluecher2 are the cause of the problem.

Napísal Goblin, 22.02.2015 at 08:20

Seriously Clovis ...this is the second time you tell me "this isnt the place to discuss this".

Dont make your pretencious fuckin topics then if you dont want to discuss things ...

Read my reply to meester and International. That is the point of this thread.

Napísal Acquiesce, 22.02.2015 at 08:22

Napísal clovis1122, 22.02.2015 at 07:25

Right now there isn't any legit indicator of something. Ranks means nothing, Reps means nothing, ELO means nothing, CP means nothing...

Comp. gg

Nice try

Napísal Desu, 31.01.2015 at 11:44

2nd problem, the overall leaderboards being hard to change.




MK and Illyria can just keep going higher and higher at the same rate
The bottom four's competence keeps low the more they play, as it doesn't slow

Can you imagine someone with 2000 Chess ELO being only allowed to gain +10 when he's won against someone with 2400? Or what about someone with 2700 winning against a 2300 rated(or less) player and automatically getting +5 each and every game? Literally playing anyone and they get +5 every single game. Yet when the lowest manage a miracle win, they only get +10.

In CW competence under atWar's arrangement, the first people to rack up wins are pretty hard to move off. And those who play against the best will always lose 0.5 CW competence, and thus go into negatives when they wouldn't have normally.

When we remove that +/- 50 CP minimum, and thus the +/- 0.05 competence minimum, we fix this situation.

Shadow Aces, who today is argued about because they're going to win top 3 in the season with such a low win/loss ratio, wouldn't even have a negative competence without the minimum 50 that the better clans win. Same with Band of Brothers (Formerly known as KJP).

You've standardized wins to +50 and +100. Those below 1.0 competence will always get +100 against those with 2.0 competence or higher. There's only 10 clans in between 1.0 and 2.0 that get different winnings against a 2.0 competence clan, and only 4 of those are "active" anyway. Basically clans are pushed to the extremes, either they rise consistently or they fall hard the more they play

I also want all CW's recalculated under these rules, so we can properly determine where the overall coalition index should look like without that minimum 50 from the start. Getting above 3.0 competence should be hard to do. Going into negative competence should be hard to do.

Go back through all CWs and recalculate competence from the start removing the minimum 50 restriction. Remake the overall standings. The overall leaderboard will look slightly different, with less extremes on the top and negative scores. A difference must be made, and this is better for all coalitions and competitive environments in the future.

---

IMO

Competence is only right for the first 3 clans It should be harder! But regardless the Comp system is probably the system with less flaws in AW.

Blaaa bla and blaa

Napísal clovis1122, 21.02.2015 at 11:35

2) The problem with the Moderator Team/System: From all AtWar, the moderator team is the closest system to the admins, and also the second position in order of power. They regulate AtWar in many ways. But recently the number of players rejecting a moderator's action had rise. Once again, many players want a change.

Ever since I created an account, the number of players rejecting moderator's action always "rose" and many players wanted change :p

I myself have been at odds with moderation before being promoted, and in my opinion the moderation team shouldn't exist, the game should have a design that controls griefing and trolling. Another problem is that mods are composed of common players who often want to keep on playing. That leads to other two issues: all their actions and choices are second guessed because of past/current affiliations (also known as bias). The second issue is that you can't mod properly and play at the same time. You'll be in the middle of a cool game and then someone starts spamming in chat. Then someone else calls another player a fag. And then he responds by latejoining. Ad infinitum. Then mods start playing less and less, to the point where they just go inactive.

In the end It's no fun having to play the role of kindergarten teacher, dealing with all sorts of petty issues that could be solved with a /ignore or game design.

Napísal Azula., 21.02.2015 at 11:47

Imo we should create a group of players choosen by the admins for organize ideas and give solution for common AW problems...

This has been proposed in the past and discarded, since there's no proof that those solutions, or the judgment of those players, would be much better than an open discussion on the forums.

Napísal notserral, 22.02.2015 at 20:46

In the end It's no fun having to play the role of kindergarten teacher, dealing with all sorts of petty issues that could be solved with a /ignore or game design.

I had never seen it like that.... but makes sense....

On a less serious note: as a kindergarden teacher would say... "To the corner! Right now! And don't you dare bother me anymore or you'll get the donkey hat!"