Cold death of the competitive scene

Príspevky: 176 Navštívené: 320 users

Originálna správa

Napísané , 25.01.2019 - 14:14

Update: after several discussions with several prominent scenario and custom map players, I've came up with some palpable demands. Since some people constantly say they don't get the point of this post, let me state it clearly for them. More points will be added in the future.

Make scenario CWs work. Currently, it's technically impossible to play such game.
Have a scenario / custom map mod. Currently, there are zero custom map mods, let alone scenario mods.
Stop mods from disallowing ghosting in scenarios. So far there have been numerous warnings regarding this, I'm not sure have there been more severe actions. Forcing the ghosting rule in scenarios would severely hurt the game.
Make a functioning map editor. Already discussed in other threads. I've been told it's very bugged and needs a lot more work.

Without those, CW scene will still be practically and technically locked on EU+ 10k as it is right now.

The extra point of the post is for competitive community to stop being self-centered. I've presented my insight on why the community is dying and offered several options to prevent the cold death. It's the competitive community's choice whether they ignore it, or face the issue instead. Seeing the responses and upvotes to this post, I see many familiar faces from the competitive scene supporting it. For the rest of the community I have a clear message, to stop being delusional.

I am still wondering how much time it has to take to make people realize some apparent things.

First of all, the number of competitive players is constantly shrinking. Since almost all currently active ones registered before 2016 and you can see more and more players going inactive every day, the trend is obvious. Currently active coalitions have at most 100 competitive players, for which I doubt more than half are active. Back in 2016 in the peak period of overall activity, Epic Clan had almost 60 members itself, out of which almost all played CW. Let's not even mention other coalitions like ENIGMA, SM and Mystics all had 20-30 players each. MK and several other smaller coalitions had up to 20 aswell. Unlike in this moment, at that time 90% of the mentioned players were active. The bar to join is very high aswell. All the skills of new players are overshadowed by experience of the old players who are playing the same map for years and years.

Second, the most basic competitive setting, EU+ 10k, has been played out. Since the vast majority of games are played with 6 picks and each team can pick one of the two picks in three parts of the map, there are 8 combinations total to play. Even with a few extra combinations, there is not much change. Adding that the most games are decided in first 8 turns, you can conclude the initial picks as well as the initial picks are the deciding factor in the victory. Now tell me what is the last time you've seen something new happening in CW? All moves have already been seen, they all have been played out. There have been at least 6000 CWs so far (90% of them on EU+) and at least 10 times that many duels on EU+.

The solution to that is obvious, and it's that the competitive scene stops being elitist, exclusive and egocentric. Playing diverse maps, even the other parts of world map, as well as scenarios, would increase the number of people participating in CWs 10 times. There are far more scenario, RP and world map players than competitive players, as it could be seen from several polls conducted in past. The exclusion of them from one of the most interesting features this game offers has to stop, or the game will ultimately suffer. Choose wisely.

Below is the competitive scene, colorized

Cold Case ENIGMA Príspevky: 5324 Od: Grécko	27.01.2019 - 18:33 Cold Case Napísal Brsjak, 27.01.2019 at 18:08 So you are saying that the largest community in aw has no qualified people to be mods while the competitive community is the most qualified? In a way yeah. Your point is bad IMO. RP had the biggest community ever and still had no legit candidate for mod. ---- Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Cold Case ENIGMA Príspevky: 5324 Od: Grécko	+1 27.01.2019 - 18:34 Cold Case Napísal ITSGG1122, 27.01.2019 at 18:11 In one post you say u seriously cant believe what i said or think that ghosting is allowed in scenario's, 1 minute later you say, this is a loophole and could possibly be misunderstanding and say that u agree that the rule needs adjustment. U surely can understand my annoyance. In addition to this, i never used it to seperate the two communities. The rule isnt for comp when u just 3v3 since it is not duel nor cw. And as empirezz mentioned it isnt up for interpretation. It sounds to me, that this rule is made up by interpretation by the mod team through the years which is totally fine. Just adapt it so it is clear. I have already made a post about editting the rule. ---- Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
The_Empirezz The_Empire Príspevky: 801 Od: Holandsko	+1 27.01.2019 - 18:35 The_Empirezz Napísal Waffel, 27.01.2019 at 18:22 Napísal The_Empirezz, 27.01.2019 at 18:07 It has been suggested/discussed before: https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=39641 I even made a suggestion about it, which works a bit like urs. Anyways about the rule: I'd say make a thread and discuss about the ghosting part on scenarios. Most of the people (including the mods) are decent and I am sure both sides could meet eachother halfway. Yes, I upvoted it at the time.I upvoted your suggestion aswell just now. Regardless, this fix is in hands of the admins if we are to implement it. Neither we nor the mods can do anything about it but quarrel about the rule. Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Brsjak First Order Príspevky: 1524 Od: Macedónia	+1 27.01.2019 - 18:37 Brsjak Napísal Cold Case, 27.01.2019 at 18:33 Napísal Brsjak, 27.01.2019 at 18:08 So you are saying that the largest community in aw has no qualified people to be mods while the competitive community is the most qualified? In a way yeah. Your point is bad IMO. RP had the biggest community ever and still had no legit candidate for mod. lets make a poll about what community is the largest and also stop dodging the point tell me why the scenario community isnt qualified to have a mod Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Cold Case ENIGMA Príspevky: 5324 Od: Grécko	27.01.2019 - 18:41 Cold Case Napísal Brsjak, 27.01.2019 at 18:37 lets make a poll about what community is the largest and also stop dodging the point tell me why the scenario community isnt qualified to have a mod Pay attention to what I say please. I said "had", not "have". Another day maybe, not now. No way I'm doing this again. If any other mod has the courage to post the reasons he has my blessing. ---- Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Froyer Paradox Príspevky: 3273 Od: Francúzsko	+2 28.01.2019 - 02:30 Froyer This is another thread scenario against competitive WE ARE MORE WE WANT MORE MOD WE ARE THE VICTIMS GO BACK EU+ WE ARE MORE SKILLED WE GOT EXPERIENCE AND WE KNOW MECHANIC GO BACK WW1 same shit every thread made by a scenario player yes njab is a scenario player even if he plays cw sometimes hes a scenario player for me This shit is getting boring drama is fun when u got arguments zzz only 4 scenario players are in this thread gigi empi surt or srut shitty name anyway and njab if u want scenario mod maybe make more scenario guide ( not only in ur clan forum) if u want to have map editor and scenario u will have to wait like everyone we waited for strat change and if u think we dont want map editor u are retarded. Zzzzzzzzz 6 pages of bullshit this thread was here only to creat a flame war. ---- Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
njab Účet zmazaný	28.01.2019 - 08:00 njab Účet zmazaný All I see here is Cold Case and several others blatantly ignoring the needs of a sizable part of the community, while only thinking of the tiny tiny part of it. Not only that, but he's openly saying people who support this (coming from all aspects of the game) are unimportant? What makes your voice more important than the voice of any other player on the AtWar, a blue color next to your nickname? No, it doesn't. Come back to the reality. I also like how the most of the people disagreeing with my views just blatantly ignore the problem aswell. Having the same level of CW activity as 3 or 4 years ago doesn't mean the competitive community isn't dying. If there are just two football teams playing eachother, but very often, does that mean the football scene isn't dead? Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Al Fappino The Imperial Academy Príspevky: 4087 Od: Portugalsko	+3 28.01.2019 - 08:23 Al Fappino This week is off to be a busy week for me with writings to deliver and prepare,but I promise I'll come back to this on Thursday/Friday and give it a more thoughtful read on the comments made here. However, the Competitives have been dying for some years now; its death has just been mitigated over the years by enclosured elitism or just activity in the forums, by some of the players keen to that genre. The Competitives, based from my personal experience over the years and from what I've seen, have just developed in a parallel way to the Scenario'ers, by both acting too enclosured and closed within themselves, lacking to be open enough to actively engage someone within their ranks and integrate an interested player in how they play within their CW's and other events, and in the case of Scenario'ers, by closing WW1's over the years just for themselves (along with other stuff). The difference between the two is simple: Scenario'ers are way more numerous, and have always been, over the years. Scenario'ers grew into enclosurement between themselves, but were eventually forced to receive and embrace other people otherwise their maps or clans would die, and because the map editor required a tightly-held community in order to sustain itself through the Dark Ages - Sure, this is debatable, as Scenario'ers divided between WW1'ers and RP'ers with the Third Way being all the other maps played by a minority. Based on all of this, and I'm sorry for the rushy ideas, but I'm free to elaborate on them later, the Competitives are dying, not only because of the game's stagnation of the recent years, but because they've generally failed to improvise, adapt, overcome. Sure, they've started training folks in the art of competitive gaming, or however you wanna call it, but they haven't fully immersed the recruits within their ranks, their clans, their games at larger dimensions, because ultimately, reputation and gaming quality prevails, and those are short-term held by the experient elderly. So yes, my suggestion would be that Competitives get off their ivory tower and start adapting to new terrains. It has been said custom map CW's would be a good thing, or even a tilt for custom map gaming events. That's part of the adaptation that community needs to engage in. Personally, and goes in the lines of what njab said in the opening post, the competitives are dying mostly because they brought it upon themselves, by turning the comp scen in a personal hunting terrain for the few with their arrogance and egocentric exclusivity which led them nowhere. ---- Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Garde Príspevky: 2842 Od: Canada	+1 28.01.2019 - 08:36 Garde Napísal 4nic, 28.01.2019 at 05:37 Seriously who the fuck upvoted this shit, seeing upvotes theres nobody from competitives who upvoted its like njab sent people links in pr and asked them to upvote. 10/10 lmao Nope, just because we aren't included in your autism club doesn't mean we don't have an opinion. Not to mention, none of your group is competitive when the majority of you pull the "1v1 me fgt" shit instead of playing a standardized gametype and call that "competitive". Can you stop derailing the topic now? Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Cold Case ENIGMA Príspevky: 5324 Od: Grécko	+1 28.01.2019 - 10:24 Cold Case Napísal Guest, 28.01.2019 at 08:00 All I see here is Cold Case and several others blatantly ignoring the needs of a sizable part of the community, while only thinking of the tiny tiny part of it. Not only that, but he's openly saying people who support this (coming from all aspects of the game) are unimportant? What makes your voice more important than the voice of any other player on the AtWar, a blue color next to your nickname? No, it doesn't. Come back to the reality. I also like how the most of the people disagreeing with my views just blatantly ignore the problem aswell. Having the same level of CW activity as 3 or 4 years ago doesn't mean the competitive community isn't dying. If there are just two football teams playing eachother, but very often, does that mean the football scene isn't dead? This is quite the post. Firstly, I never said they are unimportant people and that their opinion doesn't matter, do not twist my words. I only said that they are people who I have never, ever seen in the game before, communicating with anyone rather than their own scenario buddies (If they even do that). They have never used the public forum for something different than scenario in the best case scenario and are no different to what you call competitive players to be. You guys are all as closed and anti-social, egocentric and narrow-headed as much as you claim competitive players to be. I don't see myself as the god of AtWar because I'm a mod, nor do I feel the need to, that would be pathetic For your information, I do not mind having the community separated like this. Like many times in physics, one subject does not affect the other in any way. Who blatantly ignores what problem? There is no problem njab, that's what you choose not to understand. Also, what? Uhm what? I sincerely hope you realise there is no arguement in that skeptimism, right? Even the example you use is wrong. How many times has barcelona and real madrid played? Or is it the stadium? Since when is football dying because there are many known match ups? Again what? No competitive player, or any other player has left due to CWs being played in Europe+ with 10k starting cash and 1 initial pick on 4 minute turns. That's quite the opposite actually. Many have stayed because of this setting. Njab, please come back to your sense and stop defending this :p . ---- Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
njab Účet zmazaný	+1 28.01.2019 - 10:47 njab Účet zmazaný Napísal Helly, 28.01.2019 at 10:38 Actually I can attest to most of them are great players, you wouldn't know though, you decided long ago to go ahead and be a toxic asshole, who looks down on everyone. Some two dozen people who are on that list have been playing for years and you call them nobodies lol. That holier then though attitude is what's really wrong with competative. Way more than two dozen. Median rank of the people who upvoted is R10, mean rank probably higher, and all of those higher ranks have been here for years. Cold case, Froyer and co purposefully ignore the voice of all the people who gave their support to this. This is already 2nd most upvoted post on forums, just behind Fun screenshots (by 5 upvotes). Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Helly Sons of Mars Príspevky: 5389 Od: USA	+2 28.01.2019 - 10:48 Helly Napísal Guest, 28.01.2019 at 10:47 Napísal Helly, 28.01.2019 at 10:38 Actually I can attest to most of them are great players, you wouldn't know though, you decided long ago to go ahead and be a toxic asshole, who looks down on everyone. Some two dozen people who are on that list have been playing for years and you call them nobodies lol. That holier then though attitude is what's really wrong with competative. Way more than two dozen. Median rank of the people who upvoted is R10, mean rank probably higher, and all of those higher ranks have been here for years. Cold case, Froyer and co purposefully ignore the voice of all the people who gave their support to this. This is already 2nd most upvoted post on forums, just behind Fun screenshots (by 5 upvotes). I mean from the list that I made of prominent people who upvoted. I cant speak for those I dont know. ---- We are not the same- I am a Martian. Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Cold Case ENIGMA Príspevky: 5324 Od: Grécko	+4 28.01.2019 - 11:24 Cold Case Napísal Guest, 28.01.2019 at 10:47 Way more than two dozen. Median rank of the people who upvoted is R10, mean rank probably higher, and all of those higher ranks have been here for years. Cold case, Froyer and co purposefully ignore the voice of all the people who gave their support to this. This is already 2nd most upvoted post on forums, just behind Fun screenshots (by 5 upvotes). Can you stop reffering to me please? I haven't given you any right to use me for your lies. You are the one who ignores what we say and walk like a horse looking only straight ahead. Don't reffer to me again please if it's not anything rather than false blaming and stop bragging about this being the 3rd or 4rth or even second most upvoted thread ever, upvotes don't mean anything to me by the time it's from people who only see this the side they want. I don't know how we can't have an opinion and when we have one it's "ignoring the problem", while all those who upvoted see clearly and aren't one-sided. ---- Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
njab Účet zmazaný	28.01.2019 - 11:35 njab Účet zmazaný Napísal Cold Case, 28.01.2019 at 11:24 I am neither using you for my lies, nor ignoring you. I ignore posts which show sheer undervaluing of other people's opinion. I have listened to everybody's opinion here, yet you keep calling opinion of a large group of players less important than another group's opinion. Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Columna Durruti Inglourious Basterds Príspevky: 6899 Od: Kostarika	+3 28.01.2019 - 11:38 Columna Durruti Is your drama going to have an intermission soon? I need to pee. ---- Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Cold Case ENIGMA Príspevky: 5324 Od: Grécko	+3 28.01.2019 - 12:44 Cold Case Napísal Guest, 28.01.2019 at 11:35 Napísal Cold Case, 28.01.2019 at 11:24 I am neither using you for my lies, nor ignoring you. I ignore posts which show sheer undervaluing of other people's opinion. I have listened to everybody's opinion here, yet you keep calling opinion of a large group of players less important than another group's opinion. It seems this is a deadend. Must be the 5th time I'm asked to make someone realise I'm not undervaluing anyone here. It is what it is. I'm not going to stand against someone at his own specialty, by the time I know barely a thing what his specialty is about. ---- Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
njab Účet zmazaný	+1 28.01.2019 - 13:27 njab Účet zmazaný Napísal Cold Case, 27.01.2019 at 17:13 Napísal ITSGG1122, 27.01.2019 at 16:53 Napísal Cold Case, 27.01.2019 at 16:32 And for your information, i just looked up most upvotes in the General discussion After Mauzeri Panteris topic of First Atwar strike this topic has the most upvotes throughtout the years....... Most upvotes mean nothing to me when its from people who have 0 relation to forum and show up by accident just to upvote this thread. Oh guess what, they are from the scenario community as well!!! Now that's a coincidence, don't you think? Definitely not undervaluing anyone's opinion. Now you'll obviously point out you said "most upvotes", but you will also obviously forget most of the upvotes means more than 45 people. How is ignoring opinion of 45 people not undervaluing them? Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Nero Príspevky: 3756 Od: USA	+3 28.01.2019 - 13:42 Nero Napísal Helly, 28.01.2019 at 13:34 All you fags do is attack people and derail topics. Is anyone going to check froyer lol? My dude basically said "you all suck your opinions dont matter." Like who the fuck died and made this asshole king. This shit is ridiculous these people need to be purged. "We need more representation" "Come on guys, we're players just like you" "Just give us a chance" "These people need to be purged" ---- Laochra¹: i pray to the great zizou, that my tb stops the airtrans of the yellow infidel Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
njab Účet zmazaný	+2 28.01.2019 - 13:42 njab Účet zmazaný The forum post has became the most upvoted one in the history of AtWar, if I'm not wrong (maybe there are some news that admin posted which were more upvoted). And all of that in less than 3 days. I did spread my opinion out loud and promote the topic. That's the whole point of it. But the people who came here, came to support the idea, not to boost a pointless online parameter named "Forum upvotes". Okay, keep disgrerding the opinion of almost 100 active players if you wish to do so. There will be more. Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Helly Sons of Mars Príspevky: 5389 Od: USA	28.01.2019 - 13:43 Helly Napísal Nero, 28.01.2019 at 13:42 Napísal Helly, 28.01.2019 at 13:34 All you fags do is attack people and derail topics. Is anyone going to check froyer lol? My dude basically said "you all suck your opinions dont matter." Like who the fuck died and made this asshole king. This shit is ridiculous these people need to be purged. "We need more representation" "Come on guys, we're players just like you" "Just give us a chance" "These people need to be purged" Not the entire competative community. Just the rotting carcasses spewing acid in this post. ---- We are not the same- I am a Martian. Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
4nic Illyria Príspevky: 5350 Od: Taliansko	+1 28.01.2019 - 13:44 4nic Napísal Guest, 28.01.2019 at 13:42 The forum post has became the most upvoted one in the history of AtWar, if I'm not wrong (maybe there are some news that admin posted which were more upvoted). And all of that in less than 3 days. I did spread my opinion out loud and promote the topic. That's the whole point of it. But the people who came here, came to support the idea, not to boost a pointless online parameter named "Forum upvotes". Okay, keep disgrerding the opinion of almost 100 active players if you wish to do so. There will be more. you mean you begged everyone to upvote. ---- ''Everywhere where i am absent, they commit nothing but follies'' ~Napoleon Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
njab Účet zmazaný	+1 28.01.2019 - 13:44 njab Účet zmazaný Napísal 4nic, 28.01.2019 at 13:44 Napísal Guest, 28.01.2019 at 13:42 you mean you begged everyone to upvote. Yes, obviously. Even the people who probably have me on ignore, like Don. Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
chill Illyria Príspevky: 966 Od: Írsko	+4 28.01.2019 - 13:46 chill Napísal Helly, 28.01.2019 at 13:34 This shit is ridiculous these people need to be purged. holy shit bro what a sociopath Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Helly Sons of Mars Príspevky: 5389 Od: USA	+2 28.01.2019 - 14:01 Helly Oh no the evil illyrians are here to attack my character because they have no arguement to win the topic. Holy shit this is the first time Iv ever dealt with this, whatever will I do. ---- We are not the same- I am a Martian. Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Cold Case ENIGMA Príspevky: 5324 Od: Grécko	+4 28.01.2019 - 14:42 Cold Case Njab, give us a break with your upvote farm. The fact that 95% of the people who have upvoted this, are scenario players, tells you anything or no? Numbers do lie njab. ---- Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Cold Case ENIGMA Príspevky: 5324 Od: Grécko	+2 28.01.2019 - 14:43 Cold Case 4nic please step down with those insults, lets not lock this. ---- Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Ghostface Epic Clan Príspevky: 1462 Od: Macedónia	+5 28.01.2019 - 15:00 Ghostface Most upvoted thread doesn't mean shit. Most liked post on instagram is an egg. And it has more thought in it and substance than your stupid post. D Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
njab Účet zmazaný	28.01.2019 - 15:20 njab Účet zmazaný I wish to use this post to remind you all of our great fellow player Cold Case, who by chance is also a moderator, and who by chance has also never undervalued anyone's opinion, nor undervalued anyone as a person overall. A prime example of his truest personality traits can be seen in the last message of truth he has left to us: Napísal Cold Case, 28.01.2019 at 14:42 Njab, give us a break with your upvote farm. The fact that 95% of the people who have upvoted this, are scenario players, tells you anything or no? Numbers do lie njab. I will also use this post to help those who aren't able to comprehend what 95% of 93 is, to tell them it's 88.35. Let's round it down to 88. So basically, the opinion of 88 players is worth nothing, I guess. I also guess you can tell me when does opinion of people matter, since it obviously doesn't right here? I also guess you can tell me an answer on this question: if it's an upvote farm, how has nobody achieved my agricultural skills so far? This game has been going on for years and this has never happened so far. Do you think people just come and spam upvotes on posts as you wish them to? Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Cold Case ENIGMA Príspevky: 5324 Od: Grécko	+2 28.01.2019 - 15:58 Cold Case Napísal Guest, 28.01.2019 at 15:20 I wish to use this post to remind you all of our great fellow player Cold Case, who by chance is also a moderator, and who by chance has also never undervalued anyone's opinion, nor undervalued anyone as a person overall. A prime example of his truest personality traits can be seen in the last message of truth he has left to us: Napísal Cold Case, 28.01.2019 at 14:42 Njab, give us a break with your upvote farm. The fact that 95% of the people who have upvoted this, are scenario players, tells you anything or no? Numbers do lie njab. I will also use this post to help those who aren't able to comprehend what 95% of 93 is, to tell them it's 88.35. Let's round it down to 88. So basically, the opinion of 88 players is worth nothing, I guess. I also guess you can tell me when does opinion of people matter, since it obviously doesn't right here? I also guess you can tell me an answer on this question: if it's an upvote farm, how has nobody achieved my agricultural skills so far? This game has been going on for years and this has never happened so far. Do you think people just come and spam upvotes on posts as you wish them to? You have tired me, I can't stand anymore of your arrogance. How the hell does "95% of the people who upvoted are scenario players" undervalue anyone??????? Please answer me that, I can't help you anymore, please someone help him get his brain back. Also do you seriously believe I sat and figured out the number 95% ? Please njab, you are searching anywhere you can to prove something useless usefull. ---- Nahrávam... Nahrávam...
Steve Aoki ENIGMA Príspevky: 1455 Od: Srbsko	+2 28.01.2019 - 15:59 Steve Aoki Napísal Guest, 28.01.2019 at 15:20 I wish to use this post to remind you all of our great fellow player Cold Case, who by chance is also a moderator, and who by chance has also never undervalued anyone's opinion, nor undervalued anyone as a person overall. A prime example of his truest personality traits can be seen in the last message of truth he has left to us: Napísal Cold Case, 28.01.2019 at 14:42 Njab, give us a break with your upvote farm. The fact that 95% of the people who have upvoted this, are scenario players, tells you anything or no? Numbers do lie njab. I will also use this post to help those who aren't able to comprehend what 95% of 93 is, to tell them it's 88.35. Let's round it down to 88. So basically, the opinion of 88 players is worth nothing, I guess. I also guess you can tell me when does opinion of people matter, since it obviously doesn't right here? I also guess you can tell me an answer on this question: if it's an upvote farm, how has nobody achieved my agricultural skills so far? This game has been going on for years and this has never happened so far. Do you think people just come and spam upvotes on posts as you wish them to? It might sound harsh njab, but their opinion doesnt matter. Why should scenario community opinion on competitive gameplay matter? Thats like asking my opinion on quantum physics and if lotr map is balanced. Like i dont know shit about that, its not my area of expertise. So yea, feel free to brag about those upvotes but in the end we all know the reality. Nahrávam... Nahrávam...

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