About Waffel Deleted Post.

Dear AtWar players.

I'm here to present you some facts that i truely don't agree with.

- All begins when waffel has put his thread about SA stopping cw's.
He was saying that SA wouldn't deserves the win as they stopped playing 2 month before.
Also he said that it even more unfair since they get only 14 wins and 16 loss.

- After that,a civilized conversation took on. Creyente and Sa players defending their point. Other players telling their point of views.
Most of player agreed on the fact that it's bad behaviour and they shouldn't deserve it. Many also agreed that they were just exploiting the system.

- The REAL problem comes when CHTULUH, a Shadow Aces member, which happens to also be a mod decided to DELETE the thread + waffel messages.
He said that the thread had no point. That it was just unjustified personnal attack.( Meaning the thread was not fact based)
He also said that usual players shouldn't controverse mods on forum.
He said that it was last warning.

I can't agree with that kind of behaviour since this thread was objectively justified since that conversation about SA has been seen many times in chat / pr's / clan chats etc..
+ This thread was showing a pragmatical problem of the CW system that has already been critized a lot.

I'm thinking that Chtuluh is clearly UNFAIRLY over using his power to protect his clan interests. I want it to be known by the community.

PS: I have all respects for mods in general for all good things they do. Though we can't let that happen again
I assume that this thread gonna be mayham for me. That's why i want to clarify that since what happens was linked to his clan. i'm talking about Chtuluh as a player of this game not a mod.

Bye,

Zone

Sorry, i disagree. Cthulhu has seemed to be a very cool player as much as i have talked to him, and my friends have say he is very cool. with the whole post about SA, i believe it should have been locked. But it was remove; end of story.... PLZ stop bringing this subject up dudes, so annoying...

If you want to talk about unfair mods. Cthulhu shouldn't be on this list cause he deleted a couple of threads.

Napísal Mr_Own_U, 30.01.2015 at 22:12

If you want to talk about unfair mods. Cthulhu shouldn't be on this list cause he deleted a couple of threads.

And in all actuality, not trying to re ignite the flame. A moderator looked at this, one who is a close friend of yours, a former clanmate and did absolutely nothing. This thread is not 1 bit allowed. Your defense will be it's a discussion. It's not a discussion when you are bashing a mod.. Actually realize what an unfairmod is, the one who looked at this thread at let his staff members name be tarnished.

I am pretty sure that other thread turned into a flame war... that is why Cthulhu deleted that thread...

I think he even created another thread for us to talk about a solution to fix the cw point system..

I wasnt planning on posting here, but after seeing these people talking out of their arse, posting their opinions and acussing other people, without even an attempt at a logical argument and going off topic, driven by bias and favouritism, at a pathetic attempt to get this topick locked,before the person in question even responds to it, i feel its my duty as a member of this community to do so.

Napísal Google, 30.01.2015 at 21:33

Sorry, i disagree. Cthulhu has seemed to be a very cool player as much as i have talked to him, and my friends have say he is very cool. with the whole post about SA, i believe it should have been locked. But it was remove; end of story.... PLZ stop bringing this subject up dudes, so annoying...

the thread is very specific and its subject is not cthulhus character in general but ONLY in relation to his latest actions.Provide a constructive argument, to one of the original poster points or refrain from posting all together.Just by saying "no i like him he is cool" means nothing to any of us and lowers the intellectual bar of this thread heavily.Frankly your sucking up is getting annoying too, its so obvious its ridiculous.

Napísal Mr_Own_U, 30.01.2015 at 22:12

If you want to talk about unfair mods. Cthulhu shouldn't be on this list cause he deleted a couple of threads.

Why not?By the way one liner replies with no essence just waters up the quality of this thread.

Napísal Tundy, 30.01.2015 at 22:19

reasoning behind this great contribution from you, that is a great thumbup?

Napísal Mr_Own_U, 30.01.2015 at 22:21

And in all actuality, not trying to re ignite the flame. A moderator looked at this, one who is a close friend of yours, a former clanmate and did absolutely nothing. This thread is not 1 bit allowed. Your defense will be it's a discussion. It's not a discussion when you are bashing a mod.. Actually realize what an unfairmod is, the one who looked at this thread at let his staff members name be tarnished.

Not trying to reignite, but you did reignite the flame.As in "I am not trying to kill you, but i am in fact stabbing you".You are so smart (sarcasm) and i applaud how you try to sweetcoat your attempt to personally attack and discredit Acquisce in yet another thread, for the sole reason the poor guy saw the thread.As for the bashing, go read the definition of the word, try to apply it in this situation and provide us with the results.Because unbiased as i am, not having anything against Cthulhu, i dont even know him,its clear to me that the op made alot of valid points in his argument and is being really specific.He justifies his accusations with specific examples and evidence.This is called constructive critisism, people have being doing that for centuries.You want examples of bashing?Dont make me get to my other pc to find tenths of screenshots of you bashing, insulting and bullying other players and even in front of a mod friend of yours.I dont want to do it really.Your posts are actually hurting your friend, more than they help him.Y

In the end, your flawed and distorted perception and way of thinking makes me assume you are too uneducated and/or slow witted, for your opinion to have any merit on these forums.You are irelevant.And this is not me saying that.Its your own actions that scream of it.

Napísal theFuehrer, 30.01.2015 at 22:33

I am pretty sure that other thread turned into a flame war... that is why Cthulhu deleted that thread...

That is a blatant lie.I was there commenting on it and so were other people.Moreso, flamewar does not justify deletion of a thread, but lock.

Napísal Khal.eesi, 30.01.2015 at 23:16

Snip

Cthulhu is just doing his job, flame wars aren't healthy for the community
hate speech is not allowed.

Napísal Tundy, 30.01.2015 at 23:19

Napísal Khal.eesi, 30.01.2015 at 23:16

Snip

Cthulhu is just doing his job, flame wars aren't healthy for the community
hate speech is not allowed.

yeah we were having a discussion with columna in the other thread and i think we managed to establish what is hate speech and what is not.This forum is not a dictionary nor is it wikipedia.Go read up what is hate speech and come again better prepared next time, before you waste my time again.

Napísal Khal.eesi, 30.01.2015 at 23:21

Napísal Tundy, 30.01.2015 at 23:19

Napísal Khal.eesi, 30.01.2015 at 23:16

Snip

Cthulhu is just doing his job, flame wars aren't healthy for the community
hate speech is not allowed.

yeah we were having a discussion with columna in the other thread and i think we managed to establish what is hate speech and what is not.This forum is not a dictionary nor is it wikipedia.Go read up what is hate speech and come again better prepared next time, before you waste my time again.

I don't see what could you possible gain by bashing Cthulhu for doing his best to stop a flame war.
the CW system has already been proven to be flawed, countless of topics have already been made about how to fix it, and multiple clans have been bashed for taking advantage of it, Waffel's topic contributed nothing new to an already over-discussed topic.

Nobody seemed to give a fuck when Vril just banned people and deleted topics without reason, and people consider him a good mod.

Napísal Tundy, 30.01.2015 at 23:27

I don't see what could you possible gain by bashing Cthulhu for doing his best to stop a flame war.
the CW system has already been proven to be flawed, countless of topics have already been made about how to fix it, and multiple clans have been bashed for taking advantage of it, Waffel's topic contributed nothing new to an already over-discussed topic.

Nobody seemed to give a fuck when Vril just banned people and deleted topics without reason, and people consider him a good mod.

First of all i never bashed Cthulhu.Stop lying and making me look bad, cause its infuriating.I speak for what is right.The same why i was posting in your ridiculous map strike thread,in mods favour.The mods were right, mapmakers were wrong and i supported them.All i saw now, was a 5 pages thread, with lots of arguments and no flamewar, posts by mods also, that got deleted for no reason, when it could have just been locked and waffel get 60 day ban for complaining about it.That seems unfair to me and uncalled for and that is the only reason im posting.
Also i loled about Vril.Do us a favour Tunder and stop trolling.

Napísal Khal.eesi, 30.01.2015 at 23:35

-snip-

Nothing good will come from a topic that starts like this:

Napísal Zone, 30.01.2015 at 20:56

I'm thinking that Chtuluh is clearly UNFAIRLY over using his power to protect his clan interests. I want it to be known by the community.

Even when not specified, staff has the sole right and final judgement of how to interpret and apply these Rules and Guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment. The rules may, at any time, be applied or changed by any moderator or admin if they feel right. Relying on rules is therefore useless

You have no case here, atwar is not a democracy, atwar is an authoritarian regime run by mods, by playing atwar you accept that mods have the right to apply the rules as they see it fit, complaining about it is against the rules. There is already a precedent in which mods add new rules without having to ask the community.

This is my last comment in the matter.

IS khal crying? Did he even read my post?

Napísal Tundy, 30.01.2015 at 23:53

Napísal Khal.eesi, 30.01.2015 at 23:35

-snip-

Nothing good will come from a topic that starts like this:

Napísal Zone, 30.01.2015 at 20:56

I'm thinking that Chtuluh is clearly UNFAIRLY over using his power to protect his clan interests. I want it to be known by the community.

Even when not specified, staff has the sole right and final judgement of how to interpret and apply these Rules and Guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment. The rules may, at any time, be applied or changed by any moderator or admin if they feel right. Relying on rules is therefore useless

You have no case here, atwar is not a democracy, atwar is an authoritarian regime run by mods, by playing atwar you accept that mods have the right to apply the rules as they see it fit, complaining about it is against the rules. There is already a precedent in which mods add new rules without having to ask the community.

This is my last comment in the matter.

Tunder i'm curious are you now agreeing with the principle of that argument, because last week you were one of the most potent voices against it. As I said the statement is a paradox anyway shortened it reads 'This is a rule....relying on rules is useless' which can be interpreted as there are no rules.

Napísal b0nker2, 31.01.2015 at 00:00

Tunder i'm curious are you now agreeing with the principle of that argument, because last week you were one of the most potent voices against it. As I said the statement is a paradox anyway shortened it reads 'This is a rule....relying on rules is useless' which can be interpreted as there are no rules.

There was no precedent of mods ever using that statement to protect their course of action but now there is one (the map maker strike), Now that waffel's topic was deleted people are accusing Cthulhu of interpreting the rules unfairly, but as you said b0nker now we have to be consistent, Cthulhu was just interpreting the rules as he is allowed to do.

Napísal Tundy, 31.01.2015 at 00:16

Napísal b0nker2, 31.01.2015 at 00:00

Tunder i'm curious are you now agreeing with the principle of that argument, because last week you were one of the most potent voices against it. As I said the statement is a paradox anyway shortened it reads 'This is a rule....relying on rules is useless' which can be interpreted as there are no rules.

There was no precedent of mods ever using that statement to protect their course of action but now there is one (the map maker strike), Now that waffel's topic was deleted people are accusing Cthulhu of interpreting the rules unfairly, but as you said b0nker now we have to be consistent, Cthulhu was just interpreting the rules as he is allowed to do.

Consistency needs to be unified. Equally that precedent needs to be set to all threads and not selective ones (refer to other thread) . btw that includes this and the support of moderator thread both should now be deleted. thanks for solving my curiosity

Napísal b0nker2, 31.01.2015 at 00:28

Consistency needs to be unified. Equally that precedent needs to be set to all threads and not selective ones (refer to other thread) . btw that includes this and the support of moderator thread both should now be deleted. thanks for solving my curiosity

The topic about "support of a moderator" doesn't break a single rule (he is only guilty of kissing ass)

But waffel did broke rules:

05. Harassing, threatening, embarrassing, or doing anything to another member or guest that is unwanted is not permitted

13. Do not post to attack or ridicule other players publicly.

14. Do post about moderation actions on forums or in game.

15. Posts that have been removed are not to be re-posted

Napísal Tundy, 31.01.2015 at 00:38

Napísal b0nker2, 31.01.2015 at 00:28

Consistency needs to be unified. Equally that precedent needs to be set to all threads and not selective ones (refer to other thread) . btw that includes this and the support of moderator thread both should now be deleted. thanks for solving my curiosity

The topic about "support of a moderator" doesn't break a single rule (he is only guilty of kissing ass)

But waffel did broke rules:

05. Harassing, threatening, embarrassing, or doing anything to another member or guest that is unwanted is not permitted

13. Do not post to attack or ridicule other players publicly.

14. Do post about moderation actions on forums or in game.

15. Posts that have been removed are not to be re-posted

Cthulu didn't state any of those rules for the closing of the waffel thread, the only reason he gave was 'it went off topic', therefore he has set his own precedent for future threads.

Rule 5 cannot be used since a separate moderator can be interpreted (and was by me) to have done that themselves, I also don't believe that was the intention of the original thread, furthermore this rule is very loosely defined, for example everyone now critisising waffel can be seen as embarrassing for him. (it works both ways mate)

rule 13 is pointless since people can't see the difference between arguing against someone or 'ridiculing' them, is waffel not being ridiculed for his arguments here?

14. Nice typo, I assume you meant don't. The rule is completely unrealistic to anyone who actually cares about this game or has a reasonable mind, im suprised you of all people are agreeing with it. If someone moderator or not challenges me in public, I will reply in public.

15. dont delete entire topics in the first place and it would not be a problem.


Remember though '' Relying on rules is therefore useless'' so waffel has broken no rules. (all interpretation right?)

To clarify this even more.
This isn't a personnal attack on Chtuluh. I never had any problem with him in the past.
I'm pointing out the facts. This is an attack on his behaviour above this case.
for the people who didn't remember how this thread actually was, please don't say " There should have been flaming war ". Cause it is really not what happened.
Since he deleted a post that clearly was fair and just pointing out some facts and behaviour . The BIG problem there is that it seemed like his clan interests interfered with his moderating job.

Napísal Tundy, 30.01.2015 at 23:27

Napísal Khal.eesi, 30.01.2015 at 23:21

Napísal Tundy, 30.01.2015 at 23:19

Napísal Khal.eesi, 30.01.2015 at 23:16

Snip

Cthulhu is just doing his job, flame wars aren't healthy for the community
hate speech is not allowed.

yeah we were having a discussion with columna in the other thread and i think we managed to establish what is hate speech and what is not.This forum is not a dictionary nor is it wikipedia.Go read up what is hate speech and come again better prepared next time, before you waste my time again.

I don't see what could you possible gain by bashing Cthulhu for doing his best to stop a flame war.
the CW system has already been proven to be flawed, countless of topics have already been made about how to fix it, and multiple clans have been bashed for taking advantage of it, Waffel's topic contributed nothing new to an already over-discussed topic.

Nobody seemed to give a fuck when Vril just banned people and deleted topics without reason, and people consider him a good mod.

I don't think pointing out another mod which deleted topics WITHOUT REASON can make other mods behaviour look right when they delete topics with no valid reason.

Also, the main point of my topic as you can see is not about the CW system. It's about someone behaviour.
+ I don't see how Waffel post can be off topic or personall attack or useless since it was pointing out something that a lot of competitive players of the community felt since 1 month. The subject he brang on forum is one of main subject of AW competitive community by now since all other competitive clans felt fucked. If you don't want to talk about real Aw community problems then don't comment.

I'm waiting for Chtuluh's Constructive answer on why he did that !

Cituj:

Napísal theFuehrer, 30.01.2015 at 22:33

I am pretty sure that other thread turned into a flame war... that is why Cthulhu deleted that thread...

That is a blatant lie.I was there commenting on it and so were other people.Moreso, flamewar does not justify deletion of a thread, but lock.

oh man... you just love to argue... get over it.

Cthulhu was indeed doing his job, I personally read the entire thread... i know what it was about. At first it was clearly a discussion.. hell, even Cthulhu was taking part in the discussion.. but it soon turned into a flame war.. causing Cthulhu to delete the entire thread.

At the end of the day, none of this matters. Stop taking it so serious. If you want to find a new way to fix the cw system, go discuss it in Cthulhu's topic.. you can find it here http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=17797

As you can see, his thread only has about three replies.. that tells me no one really gives a shit about finding a solution. But it does tell me the majority of you love find any excuse to bash on other community members and start pointless flame wars. Talking shit with 'facts' or whatever you want to call it won't fix jack shit!! End this bullshit and go find a way to fix the cw system instead of starting pointless threads.

If you want to talk about fixing the clan war situation, go ahead. If you want to make a pillory post about a certain clan in particular, not allowed. The line was dangerously closed, and then to many post crossed that line.

"The BIG problem there is that it seemed like his clan interests interfered with his moderating job."
That is a lie, because I have punished my own clanmates for any rules they break. I will mute and ban friends if needed, because for the very same reason why I don't backstab people, I am a man of integrity.

Why I deleted the post? I defended my clan and friends, but that is who I am. I defend all those that are being harassed by players (not just me or my clan). I will fight against bullies and hate. I will fight to defend those that feel like they are being targeted or mistreated. So, you can have whatever opinion you want of me, I will not change who I am. People know I helped them, and as long as I am still mod, I will continue to do what I think is RIGHT according to the rules, because as mods we have to make decision based on our morality.

So if you ask me if I would delete the post over again? YES. Why? Because it led into a flame war. The only reason the post had so many replies was because we had to explain our reasoning only to have to explain the same thing over and over again (not even related to fixing clan war). You want to fix the clan war? Do it, but do so in a way that is not pillory.

I do not expect everyone to understand why I do the things I do, because sometimes people just lack the empathy to do so.
Just know three things:
I will defend people.
I will do what is right based on my morality.
I have integrity.

If you want to question why I do things, I will be happy to explain them to you. You should have asked me first before posting such a thread.
Locked.

Napísal Khal.eesi, 30.01.2015 at 23:16

I wasnt planning on posting here, but after seeing these people talking out of their arse, posting their opinions and acussing other people, without even an attempt at a logical argument and going off topic, driven by bias and favouritism, at a pathetic attempt to get this topick locked,before the person in question even responds to it, i feel its my duty as a member of this community to do so.

Napísal Google, 30.01.2015 at 21:33

Sorry, i disagree. Cthulhu has seemed to be a very cool player as much as i have talked to him, and my friends have say he is very cool. with the whole post about SA, i believe it should have been locked. But it was remove; end of story.... PLZ stop bringing this subject up dudes, so annoying...

the thread is very specific and its subject is not cthulhus character in general but ONLY in relation to his latest actions.Provide a constructive argument, to one of the original poster points or refrain from posting all together.Just by saying "no i like him he is cool" means nothing to any of us and lowers the intellectual bar of this thread heavily.Frankly your sucking up is getting annoying too, its so obvious its ridiculous.

Napísal Mr_Own_U, 30.01.2015 at 22:12

If you want to talk about unfair mods. Cthulhu shouldn't be on this list cause he deleted a couple of threads.

Why not?By the way one liner replies with no essence just waters up the quality of this thread.

Napísal Tundy, 30.01.2015 at 22:19

reasoning behind this great contribution from you, that is a great thumbup?

Napísal Mr_Own_U, 30.01.2015 at 22:21

And in all actuality, not trying to re ignite the flame. A moderator looked at this, one who is a close friend of yours, a former clanmate and did absolutely nothing. This thread is not 1 bit allowed. Your defense will be it's a discussion. It's not a discussion when you are bashing a mod.. Actually realize what an unfairmod is, the one who looked at this thread at let his staff members name be tarnished.

Not trying to reignite, but you did reignite the flame.As in "I am not trying to kill you, but i am in fact stabbing you".You are so smart (sarcasm) and i applaud how you try to sweetcoat your attempt to personally attack and discredit Acquisce in yet another thread, for the sole reason the poor guy saw the thread.As for the bashing, go read the definition of the word, try to apply it in this situation and provide us with the results.Because unbiased as i am, not having anything against Cthulhu, i dont even know him,its clear to me that the op made alot of valid points in his argument and is being really specific.He justifies his accusations with specific examples and evidence.This is called constructive critisism, people have being doing that for centuries.You want examples of bashing?Dont make me get to my other pc to find tenths of screenshots of you bashing, insulting and bullying other players and even in front of a mod friend of yours.I dont want to do it really.Your posts are actually hurting your friend, more than they help him.Y

In the end, your flawed and distorted perception and way of thinking makes me assume you are too uneducated and/or slow witted, for your opinion to have any merit on these forums.You are irelevant.And this is not me saying that.Its your own actions that scream of it.

Napísal theFuehrer, 30.01.2015 at 22:33

I am pretty sure that other thread turned into a flame war... that is why Cthulhu deleted that thread...

That is a blatant lie.I was there commenting on it and so were other people.Moreso, flamewar does not justify deletion of a thread, but lock.

Agree Great job Khal!!

Napísal Tundy, 31.01.2015 at 00:16

Napísal b0nker2, 31.01.2015 at 00:00

Tunder i'm curious are you now agreeing with the principle of that argument, because last week you were one of the most potent voices against it. As I said the statement is a paradox anyway shortened it reads 'This is a rule....relying on rules is useless' which can be interpreted as there are no rules.

There was no precedent of mods ever using that statement to protect their course of action but now there is one (the map maker strike), Now that waffel's topic was deleted people are accusing Cthulhu of interpreting the rules unfairly, but as you said b0nker now we have to be consistent, Cthulhu was just interpreting the rules as he is allowed to do.

by being biased...

Napísal Cthulhu, 31.01.2015 at 03:33

Just know three things:
I will defend people.
I will do what is right based on my morality.
I have integrity.

I don't have anything personally against you Cthulhu, but I question anyone who comes out as the ultimate good guy. You have a bias just like every other creature on this earth. We all have one. Don't act like you are some Defender of the Innocent without any alternative motive though.

Napísal Spart, 06.02.2015 at 09:23

Napísal Cthulhu, 31.01.2015 at 03:33

Just know three things:
I will defend people.
I will do what is right based on my morality.
I have integrity.

I don't have anything personally against you Cthulhu, but I question anyone who comes out as the ultimate good guy. You have a bias just like every other creature on this earth. We all have one. Don't act like you are some Defender of the Innocent without any alternative motive though.

exactly specially being that this decision happened to be discussing your clans inactivity a post in which you contributed to this so called "flame war" and some could even say the argument we had was off topic and full of pillory. so when u delete it im sure it wasnt to protect the innocent but merely your clans interest but this topic is over and these past few topics just prove that somehting has to be done about the points system

Flame wars are fun.

I believe the people who manage a website than within their rights to decide what goes on it. There is nothing stopping a player using twitter fb etc. to discuss openly any issues that are the subject of censorship.

I blame Eagle !

Napísal Sun Tsu, 06.02.2015 at 11:19

There is nothing stopping a player using twitter fb etc. to discuss openly any issues that are the subject of censorship.

except the 300 friends i have on fb that will delete and block me after i do this

Napísal Ferlucci1389, 06.02.2015 at 11:31

I blame Eagle !